A blog for Willamette University's class CLAS 171 "Love and War, Gods and Heroes: Greek and Roman Epic Poetry." Used for discussions of the epics of Homer, Hesiod, Vergil, and Lucan.
Sunday, April 8, 2012
Vergil, Aeneid, Books 1-4
What are your first impressions of the Aeneid?
(response & 2 comments on classmates' posts due Tues., 4/10/12, by 9:30 AM)
From reading the first four books of Aeneid I found it to be very similar to The odysseys. In such ways like Odysseus meeting the king and recounting his journey, Aeneas meeting Dido and recounting his journey to her. I thought it was cool how the paths of Aeneas and Odysseus crossed when they met on of Odysseus men and the blinded Cyclops. It is also interesting to see it from the other side, the Trojan side, and how this story is going to set up the Roman's connection to the Greeks.
I like the idea of the Greek and Roman setup that derives from this poem. It is nice to fully understand where this poem is going, and determining the foreshadowing that goes along with it.
Its really interesting to see where Virgil stuck with more Greek elements and where things take on a distinctly Roman flavor. In my post I talked about the gods and how it's strange to adjust to the name change, despite them being essentially the same characters.
I've also noticed this trend in the reading, although I'm not entirely sure that I like it. Sometimes I feel like Virgil is simply copying Homer. Ancient plagiarism?
I really enjoyed reading things from the Trojan's side. We never really get to appreciate the truly heroic city of troy and its people. I'm looking forward to reading about Aeneas marching through the underworld, like Odysseus before him.
The similarities in the story were very obvious and the Aeneid is easy to read because it is written in a very similar style as Homer. It is a lot less confusing on me
Its strange to think that the Romans would be tying themselves to the losers of the Trojan War, especially when there really wasn't too many good Trojan qualities
I found the first four books of the Aeneid to be almost identical to the Odyssey. Although it is from another perspective (the side of the losers) these two seperate poems have begun basically the same. The most notable similiarity and difference for that matter, would have to be the Gods. Both poems involve the God's picking a particular side of this lost hero. This is also very diiferent though because they are no longer the traditional Greek gods we are used to reading about, which makes it very interesting trying to interpret who each God would eaquate to and why they have choosen the side they did.
Ryan's post is very similary to what I picked up from the text. I also find interesting the role of the Gods that we have not been in the other epics we have read. It will be interesting to find out more about the new Gods.
My thoughts of the reading were pretty similar to these. I also find myself interested in how the gods on the "losing side" will react to the end of the war and how the relationships and interactions between the "winning" and "losing" gods will be like.
I'm not sure how many people would agree with me, but I like Virgil more than Homer. Throughout Homer, because his stories and characters are so well known, I was left with the impression that many of the heroes were nothing more than mindless agents fulfilling their roles. Harsh, I know and definitely up for debate. With Virgil on the other hand, I was drawn in instantaneously. I credit Homer to some degree, the Aeneid builds off of him after all , but Virgil deserves a lot of praise. He was able to take the perspective of a defeated Trojan warrior and tell it in such a way that we come to identify more with Aeneid than the great Greek heroes. Aeneid's heroic acts during the fall of Troy show us something we never see from the Greeks. Rarely do the Greek heroes lose, and one way or another they seem to get the last laugh.
I loved the relationship between Dido and Aeneid. Carthage is one of my favorite ancient powers and in this story not only do I get to hear about them, but in the process Aeneid is enriched as a character. The passion displayed by Dido is awesome to behold. What might say the Punic Wars were waged for domination of Mediterranean. However, after Virgil I can clearly see that the Punic Wars, like all great wars, were fought because of a woman.
Its also great to be reading Fagles again. I didn't enjoy Hesiod all that much and I'm not saying the translator was bad, but he certainly wasn't Fagles. I can read a Fagles translation and I can't help but think I'm holding a modern novel in my hands.
I completely agree with your love for Fagles. His translations have both poetic qualities and read well.
I'm glad to see that you pick up on Dido's passionate nature. The strange thing is that I remember reading somewhere that Vergil was a cold fish and didn't do a good job portraying women and passion. Maybe it's because we've just read Homer and Hesiod, where woman rarely come across as fully fleshed out characters, but I find I don't agree with this verdict at all.
One thing, though: the hero's name is _Aeneas_, the epic describing his adventures is called the _Aeneid_.
I know this to be true, I just made a stupid typo and I feel dumb for it. Perhaps it is the fact that I just read Homer and Hesiod, like you said, but I completely disagree with that opinion of Virgil. I was enchanted by everything surrounding Dido. Of all the things we have read, that is my favorite. I may also know nothing about women, so Virgil and i are just in the same boat.
Slightly off topic, but I think the main difficulty of Hesiod was the absurd amount of names and relations being thrown around, other than that, very interesting and when read the second time, more clear
I noticed many similarities between the Aenid and Homer's writings. Firstly, the first chapter concludes with a setting that is in medias res. We will hear more about the story of the end of Troy and of the wanderings of Aeneas before we hear more of his current journeys. I also notice some similarities between homer's and virgil's writing styles. Both have many instances of describing simple acts, such as kindling fire, in a very descriptive manner. As I read, however, I cannot escape the feeling that the Aenid is completely fictional, just to make the Roman Empire seem grand. In the Iliad, at least, there seems to be more plausibility involved, and less positioning.
Since I'm also taking a Roman history class I too have been keeping in mind the propaganda factor. Its interesting to see the set up for the Roman empire and the foreshadowing which definitely does not read like nonfiction. Although at the same time it's hard to read any of Homer literally either.
I agree. It seems a little far fetched that so long after the Iliad and Odyssey was written, all of the sudden Virgil, a Roman, who was across the Mediterranean would suddenly decide to follow up on Aeneas's journey following the Trojan war. I also think it's a great explanation for them on how their city was founded given that Aeneas was supposedly the grandfather of the founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus.
I agree with your thought that the Aeneid may be completely fictional, just developed to have a good tale of the origins of the Roman Empire. However, I think the same could be said of the Odyssey, to a certain extent.
I think your point is really interesting. Like I mentioned in my blog post, I studied abroad in Rome. After hearing about the grand story of Romulus and Remus finding Rome, I was always skeptical about whether or not it was factual at all. That being said, it was definitely an entertaining read because I realize how influential and significant this story is to the Romans.
Like most people, I immediately picked up on the similarities with the Odyssey, but what I was struck most by reading these first four books was the role of the gods. It's interesting to see the switch from Greek to Roman names, from Zeus to Jupiter, Hera to Juno, Aphrodite to Venus. But the gods still seem just as involved and just as capricious as in Homer. I'm interested to see how the roles of the gods develop as we go along and how their portrayal and involvement coheres or strays from Homer.
I also find the name changes to be very interesting, but also a little stressful because I felt like I was just getting comfortable knowing these gods in a certain way, and even though it is just a name change, they seem like they are new and different characters I have to get to know.
I noticed how differently Virgil describes Hera/Juno from how Homer described her. I think Virgil takes her description as a jealous/emotional wife even further than Homer did. This is seen in some of her petty actions.
Juno has already employed some tactics, but they didn't work out all that well. Who knows what the conniving wife will conjure up next. Will there be conflict between Rome and Carthage in the near future?
I, too, found the name changes interesting. I may be off on this, but I feel as though the Roman names for the gods are more prominent in our society. For example, Neptune in SpongeBob, Juno as in the movie, and Venus as in the brand of razors. Also, each of the planets are named after the Roman gods. I wonder why they made it so much more prominently into Western culture than the Greek gods.
When I started reading the Aeneid, I found a few similarities and differences between it and the Odyssey. First of all, I found in interesting that this book uses some different gods that we did not hear about at all the the Odyssey. On the other hand, I thought that the Odyssey and the Aeneid were both written poetically similar, and both describes remedial events in great detail at an attempt at epic retardation. I look forward to reading more and seeing were the stories run parallel to each other
I also noticed the attempts at epic retardation as being similar to that of the Greek epics. I do enjoy it to a certain extent. I like it more when Virgil goes in to detail when giving imagery. For ex. "At the sight an icy sweat goes rippling down my body..." (pg. 109) Good stuff!
After reading the first few books of the Aeneid, I also picked up the similarities to the Odyssey, I found it interesting how the book shared similar culture and style to the greed in the Odyssey. It was very cool to see how the gods had similar if not identical roles, just with different names. I also enjoyed how it started in the same place that the Odyssey started, just a different journey.
I also found the similarities in culture and lifestyle interesting. The once-trojans are quick to give libations to the gods as a way of imploring them. Also, I liked that the Aeneid starts in the same place at the same time, or at least close to the same time, but with a very different perspective.
I also find interesting that the qualities that Odyssey had as leader are somewhat similar to those Aeneas, with the greed of both but I feel that Aeneas is a better leader and will get more of his people to there final destination where as Odyssey lost all of his men. This is because I feel like he doesn't put his followers in as grave as situations as Odyssey does.
I wrote about this as well in my blog post. Immediately, the reader can see that the Gods hold a significant role within the Aeneid, yet the Gods that are used are different from the previous books we have read. This adds a new level of excitement because if the same names were used, this book wouldn't have been as intriguing to me. It's always nice to learn about new characters.
Reading the first four books of the Aeneid, I was really taken aback by how foreign it all seemed. It was so foreign, yet altogether familiar at the same time. The foreign aspect, of course, comes from the fact that we have spent the entirety of the semester reading Greek epics, The Iliad and The Odyssey being particularly long poems. When thumbing through the Aeneid, the gods are strange to me, the location names seem contemporary yet at the same time ancient, and the language used is slightly different. I have noticed that their are less epithets in the Aeneid than in previous Greek works that we have read. This makes it particularly hard when you aren't very knowledgeable about Roman gods. Additionally, I believe there are less similes in the Aeneid, but it could be that I read over some a bit too quickly. Lastly, I find it strange to read about the fall of Troy from the perspective of the defeated for once. The Greeks are painted in a much different light.
I noticed the same thing, however, I appreciate the differences in style. I think this is a lot easier to read than Homer's work. Fewer epithets, fewer lengthy personal histories and fewer categories make the actual story easier for me to grasp.
My first reaction upon reading the Aeneid was that is was very similar to the Odyssey in language and style, although that is not surprising because they are both epic poems. Also, it was very clear that this was written by someone other than Homer. I though it was really interesting how this story primarily follows Aeneas because he was one of the main Trojan heroes in the Iliad. I think it's great that we get to see the Trojan perspective on the war rather than the Greek, especially when Aeneas describes what happens with the Trojan horse from his perspective.
One part I found particularly interesting is when Juno (Hera) asks Aeolus, god of winds, to send a storm toward Aeneas, Poseidon (Neptune), actually protects Aeolus, which contrasts in the Odyssey in that Poseidon had a vendetta against Odysseus. Furthermore, I thought it was really interesting how the Aeneid and the Odyssey parallel each other in that Juno has a grudge against Aeneas and continually attempts to thwart him, while in the Odyssey, Poseidon does the same with Odysseus.
I agree, I would be interested to see how this story originated and if it has any inspiration from the Odyssey or it is just coincidence the similarities.
Like others who have already posted, I could see the similarities between the Odyssey and Aeneid. It was surprising to me to see that the two book had so much in common with each other even though the two books have different cultural backgrounds. It also was a bit of a speed bump to have new god names when I was getting the others down.
It was interesting reading the Aeneid and getting a description of the Trojan war from the Trojans' perspective. Like the Greeks, they believed the war was greatly influenced by the gods (although they have different names for them). However, although the stories the Aeneid and the Odyssey tells are very similar, there do seem to be slight differences.
I also found it interesting that not only did the Greeks (namely Odysseus) have problems (with the gods) sailing home from Troy, the Trojans had some as well.
I agree with Trevor, it is very interesting to see both the story of the Trojan war, as well as the crossing of the Mediterranean, from a Trojan perspective. Aeneas and Odysseus both deal with similar disasters at sea at the hands of the Gods and Goddesses who are constantly taking out personal feelings toward the characters and influencing the journeys of these two mortal heroes.
Like mentioned previously, it was very interesting to see the high similarity to the Odyssey. The only myth in regards to Rome I have ever heard is involving the wolves and what not, so this is an entire new and slightly less mythical version. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Roman gods actually are the same as the Greek gods, but simply with a different name, Zeus=Jupiter, Neptune=Poseidon, etc.
I really enjoyed reading the first four books of the Aeneid because I spent my time abroad in the city of Rome last year. In many of my classes, the story of Remus and Romulus was discussed and finally I am reading the original story that starts with their heroic father. Like people have already mentioned, the Odyssey is very similar to the Aeneid in that it keeps your attention by providing entertainment with numerous little adventures. Clearly, the Gods have a large role in the Aeneid as well, making for more entertainment when they decide to mess with the mortals. Like for instance when Cupid makes the queen fall in love with the Aeneas.
I also found it interesting when Sinon finishes speaking about the horse, and the two giant serpents attack Laocoon, the priest. Seeing as how I am art history major, this is a very famous statue that still remains in the city of Rome. I always heard about the story but reading it gave me a better understanding of where this anecdote came from.
Overall, I am really excited to read the Aeneid. Especially after our previous book Hesiod.
My first impression is that this is going to be my favorite epic thus far! I studied abroad in Rome and heard the story of Aeneas from the Roman perspective. I am excited to continue reading the original. Romulus and Remus are very important to Roman identity and culture, even today.
The part I found most interesting is the hero's stop at Carthage and interaction with Dido. Rome began to expand and assert it's power through the Punic wars, which were fought between Rome and Carthage between 264 BC and 126 BC. These wars were very important to the history of the Roman people and the saga of their expansion. It is curious to me that Virgil had Aeneas go to Carthage. It looks like the Roman history which Virgil is attempting to convey was adapted to their actual history in order to better fit their present situation and resonate with their people. In this way the mythical and actual histories of the Roman people are intertwined.
Post I think the Aeneid is, so far, a very inconsistent epic. I loved the second and the fourth book, however the first and third seemed exceptionally boring to me. Particularly in the first one, I was confused by the section where Aphrodite swept Aeneas away, it seemed arbitrary. The second and forth book however were both very similar to some of the Odyssey's best moments, both in style and in theme. The most obvious difference to the Odyssey for me is the point of view Virgil writes in. Homer seemed to spend much more time with dialogue and character narratives while Virgil spends more time in the third person. I feel that The Aeneid seriously suffers for this and it makes the Odyssey a much more enjoyable read. The second book seems an exception to this and reminded me more of the Iliad than the Odyssey in style. It was really great to see the Trojans depicted as heroes and great warriors for a change, and not just running away from the Greeks' spears. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM
Comments
JD Murray- I disagree that Virgil's epic is more engrossing. I mention why in my post, but to me, the pov he writes from is very dry and more like a reporting of the events than a story from the mortals involved perspective. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM
Jeremy- I completely agree that the Aeneid seems to be propaganda, or a love letter to the Roman Empire, but I'd say that's no different than the Iliad and to a lesser extent the Odyssey. Almost all the passages of battle in the Iliad, not having to do with Hector, showed the Greeks dominating the Trojans on the battlefield, and or the Trojans running away as cowards. Although, the Aeneid is much more explicit about this, and to me feels like the same way we as Americans depict our involvement in World War II. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM
From reading the first four books of Aeneid I found it to be very similar to The odysseys. In such ways like Odysseus meeting the king and recounting his journey, Aeneas meeting Dido and recounting his journey to her. I thought it was cool how the paths of Aeneas and Odysseus crossed when they met on of Odysseus men and the blinded Cyclops. It is also interesting to see it from the other side, the Trojan side, and how this story is going to set up the Roman's connection to the Greeks.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the Greek and Roman setup that derives from this poem. It is nice to fully understand where this poem is going, and determining the foreshadowing that goes along with it.
DeleteIts really interesting to see where Virgil stuck with more Greek elements and where things take on a distinctly Roman flavor. In my post I talked about the gods and how it's strange to adjust to the name change, despite them being essentially the same characters.
DeleteI've also noticed this trend in the reading, although I'm not entirely sure that I like it. Sometimes I feel like Virgil is simply copying Homer. Ancient plagiarism?
DeleteI really enjoyed reading things from the Trojan's side. We never really get to appreciate the truly heroic city of troy and its people. I'm looking forward to reading about Aeneas marching through the underworld, like Odysseus before him.
DeleteThe similarities in the story were very obvious and the Aeneid is easy to read because it is written in a very similar style as Homer. It is a lot less confusing on me
DeleteIts strange to think that the Romans would be tying themselves to the losers of the Trojan War, especially when there really wasn't too many good Trojan qualities
DeleteI found the first four books of the Aeneid to be almost identical to the Odyssey. Although it is from another perspective (the side of the losers) these two seperate poems have begun basically the same. The most notable similiarity and difference for that matter, would have to be the Gods. Both poems involve the God's picking a particular side of this lost hero. This is also very diiferent though because they are no longer the traditional Greek gods we are used to reading about, which makes it very interesting trying to interpret who each God would eaquate to and why they have choosen the side they did.
ReplyDeleteRyan's post is very similary to what I picked up from the text. I also find interesting the role of the Gods that we have not been in the other epics we have read. It will be interesting to find out more about the new Gods.
DeleteDid you also pick up on the differences? How does, for example, Aeneas compare to Odysseus as a hero and leader of his people?
DeleteMy thoughts of the reading were pretty similar to these. I also find myself interested in how the gods on the "losing side" will react to the end of the war and how the relationships and interactions between the "winning" and "losing" gods will be like.
DeleteI'm not sure how many people would agree with me, but I like Virgil more than Homer. Throughout Homer, because his stories and characters are so well known, I was left with the impression that many of the heroes were nothing more than mindless agents fulfilling their roles. Harsh, I know and definitely up for debate. With Virgil on the other hand, I was drawn in instantaneously. I credit Homer to some degree, the Aeneid builds off of him after all , but Virgil deserves a lot of praise. He was able to take the perspective of a defeated Trojan warrior and tell it in such a way that we come to identify more with Aeneid than the great Greek heroes. Aeneid's heroic acts during the fall of Troy show us something we never see from the Greeks. Rarely do the Greek heroes lose, and one way or another they seem to get the last laugh.
ReplyDeleteI loved the relationship between Dido and Aeneid. Carthage is one of my favorite ancient powers and in this story not only do I get to hear about them, but in the process Aeneid is enriched as a character. The passion displayed by Dido is awesome to behold. What might say the Punic Wars were waged for domination of Mediterranean. However, after Virgil I can clearly see that the Punic Wars, like all great wars, were fought because of a woman.
Its also great to be reading Fagles again. I didn't enjoy Hesiod all that much and I'm not saying the translator was bad, but he certainly wasn't Fagles. I can read a Fagles translation and I can't help but think I'm holding a modern novel in my hands.
I completely agree with your love for Fagles. His translations have both poetic qualities and read well.
DeleteI'm glad to see that you pick up on Dido's passionate nature. The strange thing is that I remember reading somewhere that Vergil was a cold fish and didn't do a good job portraying women and passion. Maybe it's because we've just read Homer and Hesiod, where woman rarely come across as fully fleshed out characters, but I find I don't agree with this verdict at all.
One thing, though: the hero's name is _Aeneas_, the epic describing his adventures is called the _Aeneid_.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI know this to be true, I just made a stupid typo and I feel dumb for it. Perhaps it is the fact that I just read Homer and Hesiod, like you said, but I completely disagree with that opinion of Virgil. I was enchanted by everything surrounding Dido. Of all the things we have read, that is my favorite. I may also know nothing about women, so Virgil and i are just in the same boat.
DeleteSlightly off topic, but I think the main difficulty of Hesiod was the absurd amount of names and relations being thrown around, other than that, very interesting and when read the second time, more clear
DeleteI noticed many similarities between the Aenid and Homer's writings. Firstly, the first chapter concludes with a setting that is in medias res. We will hear more about the story of the end of Troy and of the wanderings of Aeneas before we hear more of his current journeys. I also notice some similarities between homer's and virgil's writing styles. Both have many instances of describing simple acts, such as kindling fire, in a very descriptive manner. As I read, however, I cannot escape the feeling that the Aenid is completely fictional, just to make the Roman Empire seem grand. In the Iliad, at least, there seems to be more plausibility involved, and less positioning.
ReplyDeleteSince I'm also taking a Roman history class I too have been keeping in mind the propaganda factor. Its interesting to see the set up for the Roman empire and the foreshadowing which definitely does not read like nonfiction. Although at the same time it's hard to read any of Homer literally either.
DeleteI agree. It seems a little far fetched that so long after the Iliad and Odyssey was written, all of the sudden Virgil, a Roman, who was across the Mediterranean would suddenly decide to follow up on Aeneas's journey following the Trojan war. I also think it's a great explanation for them on how their city was founded given that Aeneas was supposedly the grandfather of the founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus.
DeleteI agree with your thought that the Aeneid may be completely fictional, just developed to have a good tale of the origins of the Roman Empire. However, I think the same could be said of the Odyssey, to a certain extent.
DeleteI think your point is really interesting. Like I mentioned in my blog post, I studied abroad in Rome. After hearing about the grand story of Romulus and Remus finding Rome, I was always skeptical about whether or not it was factual at all. That being said, it was definitely an entertaining read because I realize how influential and significant this story is to the Romans.
DeleteLike most people, I immediately picked up on the similarities with the Odyssey, but what I was struck most by reading these first four books was the role of the gods. It's interesting to see the switch from Greek to Roman names, from Zeus to Jupiter, Hera to Juno, Aphrodite to Venus. But the gods still seem just as involved and just as capricious as in Homer. I'm interested to see how the roles of the gods develop as we go along and how their portrayal and involvement coheres or strays from Homer.
ReplyDeleteI also find the name changes to be very interesting, but also a little stressful because I felt like I was just getting comfortable knowing these gods in a certain way, and even though it is just a name change, they seem like they are new and different characters I have to get to know.
DeleteI noticed how differently Virgil describes Hera/Juno from how Homer described her. I think Virgil takes her description as a jealous/emotional wife even further than Homer did. This is seen in some of her petty actions.
DeleteJuno has already employed some tactics, but they didn't work out all that well. Who knows what the conniving wife will conjure up next. Will there be conflict between Rome and Carthage in the near future?
DeleteI, too, found the name changes interesting. I may be off on this, but I feel as though the Roman names for the gods are more prominent in our society. For example, Neptune in SpongeBob, Juno as in the movie, and Venus as in the brand of razors. Also, each of the planets are named after the Roman gods. I wonder why they made it so much more prominently into Western culture than the Greek gods.
DeleteWhen I started reading the Aeneid, I found a few similarities and differences between it and the Odyssey. First of all, I found in interesting that this book uses some different gods that we did not hear about at all the the Odyssey. On the other hand, I thought that the Odyssey and the Aeneid were both written poetically similar, and both describes remedial events in great detail at an attempt at epic retardation. I look forward to reading more and seeing were the stories run parallel to each other
ReplyDeleteI also noticed the attempts at epic retardation as being similar to that of the Greek epics. I do enjoy it to a certain extent. I like it more when Virgil goes in to detail when giving imagery. For ex. "At the sight an icy sweat goes rippling down my body..." (pg. 109) Good stuff!
DeleteAfter reading the first few books of the Aeneid, I also picked up the similarities to the Odyssey, I found it interesting how the book shared similar culture and style to the greed in the Odyssey. It was very cool to see how the gods had similar if not identical roles, just with different names. I also enjoyed how it started in the same place that the Odyssey started, just a different journey.
ReplyDeleteI also found the similarities in culture and lifestyle interesting. The once-trojans are quick to give libations to the gods as a way of imploring them. Also, I liked that the Aeneid starts in the same place at the same time, or at least close to the same time, but with a very different perspective.
DeleteI also find interesting that the qualities that Odyssey had as leader are somewhat similar to those Aeneas, with the greed of both but I feel that Aeneas is a better leader and will get more of his people to there final destination where as Odyssey lost all of his men. This is because I feel like he doesn't put his followers in as grave as situations as Odyssey does.
DeleteI also thought it was interesting to see how the Roman gods compared and contrasted to the Greek ones.
DeleteI wrote about this as well in my blog post. Immediately, the reader can see that the Gods hold a significant role within the Aeneid, yet the Gods that are used are different from the previous books we have read. This adds a new level of excitement because if the same names were used, this book wouldn't have been as intriguing to me. It's always nice to learn about new characters.
DeleteReading the first four books of the Aeneid, I was really taken aback by how foreign it all seemed. It was so foreign, yet altogether familiar at the same time. The foreign aspect, of course, comes from the fact that we have spent the entirety of the semester reading Greek epics, The Iliad and The Odyssey being particularly long poems. When thumbing through the Aeneid, the gods are strange to me, the location names seem contemporary yet at the same time ancient, and the language used is slightly different. I have noticed that their are less epithets in the Aeneid than in previous Greek works that we have read. This makes it particularly hard when you aren't very knowledgeable about Roman gods. Additionally, I believe there are less similes in the Aeneid, but it could be that I read over some a bit too quickly. Lastly, I find it strange to read about the fall of Troy from the perspective of the defeated for once. The Greeks are painted in a much different light.
ReplyDeleteI noticed the same thing, however, I appreciate the differences in style. I think this is a lot easier to read than Homer's work. Fewer epithets, fewer lengthy personal histories and fewer categories make the actual story easier for me to grasp.
DeleteMy first reaction upon reading the Aeneid was that is was very similar to the Odyssey in language and style, although that is not surprising because they are both epic poems. Also, it was very clear that this was written by someone other than Homer. I though it was really interesting how this story primarily follows Aeneas because he was one of the main Trojan heroes in the Iliad. I think it's great that we get to see the Trojan perspective on the war rather than the Greek, especially when Aeneas describes what happens with the Trojan horse from his perspective.
ReplyDeleteOne part I found particularly interesting is when Juno (Hera) asks Aeolus, god of winds, to send a storm toward Aeneas, Poseidon (Neptune), actually protects Aeolus, which contrasts in the Odyssey in that Poseidon had a vendetta against Odysseus. Furthermore, I thought it was really interesting how the Aeneid and the Odyssey parallel each other in that Juno has a grudge against Aeneas and continually attempts to thwart him, while in the Odyssey, Poseidon does the same with Odysseus.
I agree, I would be interested to see how this story originated and if it has any inspiration from the Odyssey or it is just coincidence the similarities.
DeleteLike others who have already posted, I could see the similarities between the Odyssey and Aeneid. It was surprising to me to see that the two book had so much in common with each other even though the two books have different cultural backgrounds. It also was a bit of a speed bump to have new god names when I was getting the others down.
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting reading the Aeneid and getting a description of the Trojan war from the Trojans' perspective. Like the Greeks, they believed the war was greatly influenced by the gods (although they have different names for them). However, although the stories the Aeneid and the Odyssey tells are very similar, there do seem to be slight differences.
ReplyDeleteI also found it interesting that not only did the Greeks (namely Odysseus) have problems (with the gods) sailing home from Troy, the Trojans had some as well.
I agree with Trevor, it is very interesting to see both the story of the Trojan war, as well as the crossing of the Mediterranean, from a Trojan perspective. Aeneas and Odysseus both deal with similar disasters at sea at the hands of the Gods and Goddesses who are constantly taking out personal feelings toward the characters and influencing the journeys of these two mortal heroes.
DeleteLike mentioned previously, it was very interesting to see the high similarity to the Odyssey. The only myth in regards to Rome I have ever heard is involving the wolves and what not, so this is an entire new and slightly less mythical version. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Roman gods actually are the same as the Greek gods, but simply with a different name, Zeus=Jupiter, Neptune=Poseidon, etc.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading the first four books of the Aeneid because I spent my time abroad in the city of Rome last year. In many of my classes, the story of Remus and Romulus was discussed and finally I am reading the original story that starts with their heroic father. Like people have already mentioned, the Odyssey is very similar to the Aeneid in that it keeps your attention by providing entertainment with numerous little adventures. Clearly, the Gods have a large role in the Aeneid as well, making for more entertainment when they decide to mess with the mortals. Like for instance when Cupid makes the queen fall in love with the Aeneas.
ReplyDeleteI also found it interesting when Sinon finishes speaking about the horse, and the two giant serpents attack Laocoon, the priest. Seeing as how I am art history major, this is a very famous statue that still remains in the city of Rome. I always heard about the story but reading it gave me a better understanding of where this anecdote came from.
Overall, I am really excited to read the Aeneid. Especially after our previous book Hesiod.
My first impression is that this is going to be my favorite epic thus far! I studied abroad in Rome and heard the story of Aeneas from the Roman perspective. I am excited to continue reading the original. Romulus and Remus are very important to Roman identity and culture, even today.
ReplyDeleteThe part I found most interesting is the hero's stop at Carthage and interaction with Dido. Rome began to expand and assert it's power through the Punic wars, which were fought between Rome and Carthage between 264 BC and 126 BC. These wars were very important to the history of the Roman people and the saga of their expansion. It is curious to me that Virgil had Aeneas go to Carthage. It looks like the Roman history which Virgil is attempting to convey was adapted to their actual history in order to better fit their present situation and resonate with their people. In this way the mythical and actual histories of the Roman people are intertwined.
I am very excited for the rest of the epic!
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ReplyDeleteI think the Aeneid is, so far, a very inconsistent epic. I loved the second and the fourth book, however the first and third seemed exceptionally boring to me. Particularly in the first one, I was confused by the section where Aphrodite swept Aeneas away, it seemed arbitrary. The second and forth book however were both very similar to some of the Odyssey's best moments, both in style and in theme. The most obvious difference to the Odyssey for me is the point of view Virgil writes in. Homer seemed to spend much more time with dialogue and character narratives while Virgil spends more time in the third person. I feel that The Aeneid seriously suffers for this and it makes the Odyssey a much more enjoyable read. The second book seems an exception to this and reminded me more of the Iliad than the Odyssey in style. It was really great to see the Trojans depicted as heroes and great warriors for a change, and not just running away from the Greeks' spears. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM
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JD Murray- I disagree that Virgil's epic is more engrossing. I mention why in my post, but to me, the pov he writes from is very dry and more like a reporting of the events than a story from the mortals involved perspective. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM
Jeremy- I completely agree that the Aeneid seems to be propaganda, or a love letter to the Roman Empire, but I'd say that's no different than the Iliad and to a lesser extent the Odyssey. Almost all the passages of battle in the Iliad, not having to do with Hector, showed the Greeks dominating the Trojans on the battlefield, and or the Trojans running away as cowards. Although, the Aeneid is much more explicit about this, and to me feels like the same way we as Americans depict our involvement in World War II. John Mackay 4/10/12, 9:08 AM